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 Post subject: 1.0.0 feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:44 pm
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Pulled down a copy of "main" the other day for reasons I can't really explain. Got it running.

Took at look at the interface and found a few things I really really really don't like.

1) "console" and "graphps" links at the top are now javascript - so middle-click-open-in-new-tab doesn't work. Please make these real links. (in fact, please avoid javascript for nav links in general!)

2) so now the top bar is frozen, the left side bar is a frame with a scrollbar, and the main display part of the page is also a frame?! (yes, they're not really frames. no, it's still not a good thing. why in the world do I need to have three sets of scrollbars? one was plenty.) So now my overall interface is SMALLER, since when I scroll down the top bar consumes part of my display. Not everyone has, or indeed even can use uber high res screens. Please keep in mind those of us who are constrained to 1024 verticals (for technical and or vision reasons).

3) more bad tabs. the tabs in the old data sources/data templates were painful enough. Now we get the same broken methodology in the edit devices page? (and presumably other places). What's the problem with this? I change a field. I fail to scroll way down to the bottom and hit "save", and instead select a new tab - presuming I need/want to see something, change something, on that tab. Switch back to the original tab. The data I entered/changed is gone. And since the tabs are javascript, I can't pop one out into it's own tab/window easily to switch back and forth or to edit in parallel. At the very very least the tab implementation should consistently retain changed data when switching around between tabs - so you can change everything, then save.

4) at the bottom of the devices page - "return" wtf does that mean? turns it out means "cancel". come on. "save" vs "cancel" was perfectly reasonable. "return" is just stupid. (MAYBE if you detected that the page was changed vs unchanged and switched the label around....but really, why?

5) a positive - the new datasource/template interface, ignoring the tab switching data loss, is massively improved - the list format instead of the old tab format for ds items is great (at least at first glance. but this was always a huge problem area as we all know)

6) where did color templates go? (or are they part of a plugin I'm using...)


other than that, and the things that are broken that I suspect are known about....looks good.


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 Post subject: Re: 1.0.0 feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 2:46 am
Posts: 22461
Location: Muenster, Germany
keen99 wrote:
Pulled down a copy of "main" the other day for reasons I can't really explain. Got it running.
Great

Quote:
1) "console" and "graphps" links at the top are now javascript - so middle-click-open-in-new-tab doesn't work. Please make these real links. (in fact, please avoid javascript for nav links in general!)
Personally, I do not like that, too. Perhaps we should discuss again ...

Quote:
2) so now the top bar is frozen, the left side bar is a frame with a scrollbar, and the main display part of the page is also a frame?! (yes, they're not really frames. no, it's still not a good thing. why in the world do I need to have three sets of scrollbars? one was plenty.) So now my overall interface is SMALLER, since when I scroll down the top bar consumes part of my display. Not everyone has, or indeed even can use uber high res screens. Please keep in mind those of us who are constrained to 1024 verticals (for technical and or vision reasons).
Being able to scroll the left menu was a requirement, as many plugins add items to the menu. We want to scroll it independently from the main part.

Quote:
3) more bad tabs. the tabs in the old data sources/data templates were painful enough. Now we get the same broken methodology in the edit devices page? (and presumably other places). What's the problem with this? I change a field. I fail to scroll way down to the bottom and hit "save", and instead select a new tab - presuming I need/want to see something, change something, on that tab. Switch back to the original tab. The data I entered/changed is gone. And since the tabs are javascript, I can't pop one out into it's own tab/window easily to switch back and forth or to edit in parallel. At the very very least the tab implementation should consistently retain changed data when switching around between tabs - so you can change everything, then save.
I accept the "save data" thingy. But the tabs (especially on the graph templates) apply a structure to the huge amount of options available with latest rrdtool.
We/I indeed started with a huge seuqntial list of options. But then, you're scrolling back and forth, no joy.
So I started to implement "sections" (implemented as tables), allowing them to be reduced to their headings to save space.
According to our "general move to a tabbed interface", I then replaced those "sections" by "tabs". I suppose, it is more a fact of likings whether you prefer tabs over "sections"

Quote:
4) at the bottom of the devices page - "return" wtf does that mean? turns it out means "cancel". come on. "save" vs "cancel" was perfectly reasonable. "return" is just stupid. (MAYBE if you detected that the page was changed vs unchanged and switched the label around....but really, why?
Return returns to the list view

Quote:
6) where did color templates go? (or are they part of a plugin I'm using...)
Yep, that's the AGGREGATE plugin.

I appreciate your response and the time you've spent to work with this pre-alpha code. In case you find any bugs, please use http://bugs.cacti.net.
And in case you have more feedback on the UI, please post.
R.

_________________
Official Cacti Documentation
Official Debugging Help
Central Plugin Repository
Central Templates Repository


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 Post subject: Re: 1.0.0 feedback
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:44 pm
Posts: 2
Quote:
Quote:
1) "console" and "graphs" links at the top are now javascript - so middle-click-open-in-new-tab doesn't work. Please make these real links. (in fact, please avoid javascript for nav links in general!)
Personally, I do not like that, too. Perhaps we should discuss again ...


Thanks - keeping all nav links (basically anything outside of the context of an actual configuration form) real link instead of javascript avoids breaking forward/backward navigation and allows the user to chose how and where they want to open them. (I like to middle click open frequently for side by side work), others may left click, or right then open in new...)


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2) so now the top bar is frozen, the left side bar is a frame with a scrollbar, and the main display part of the page is also a frame?!
Being able to scroll the left menu was a requirement, as many plugins add items to the menu. We want to scroll it independently from the main part.


Can we break the top bar loose? That might mean making the console/graphs links be part of the left menu, and the settings/etc part of main page body. Losing a inch of vertical screen real estate on a screen that's <7" tall hurts. Basically split the page into just left/right, instead of left/right/top.


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3) more bad tabs.
I accept the "save data" thingy.


Yep - if we're going to stick with tabs inside the forms, we need to retain state across until a save/cancel. If we cancel, it would be great to track that there -was- changed stage and throw an alert on cancel....

Quote:
But the tabs (especially on the graph templates) apply a structure to the huge amount of options available with latest rrdtool.


After spending more time with it (particularly with data source/template, and graph templates) I'll agree in general, assuming we don't lose state. It definitely helped to organize some of the page layouts. Some of them may have become -too- compressed, but I'll live. ;)

Just make sure we only apply the tabbed interface where it makes sense - if it's really breaking up sections of a form, as opposed to navigating to a new area of cacti. (the new list tabs are interesting - and are sort of a violation, since they present a customized view of the normal list interface....and once we retain tab state could allow the user to switch back and forth between config and the list view w/o losing data..)



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4) at the bottom of the devices page - "return"
Return returns to the list view

but we're not returning, we're canceling a form submission... if it were a purely navigation page, as opposed to a configuration page, "return" might make sense, and be the only option.

As it is - it's extremely buggy since it appears to be an attempt at a browser history lookup and traversal (didnt look at the code, only at the result. every time I hit "return" once I'd flipped tabs i would wind up somewhere completely random). but "cancel" would still be much more apropos....


thanks.


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